tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post4522525061879188778..comments2023-07-12T07:51:03.737-07:00Comments on SkeptiVet: Another version of the naturalistic fallacy in the quest for longevity.Bartimaeushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04041170926124714639noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-86898906376269834862013-01-11T08:44:49.910-08:002013-01-11T08:44:49.910-08:00twonatures; please note that I did not say wolves ...twonatures; please note that I did not say wolves could not be fed a meat-based diet successfully. It is perfectly fine to feed them commercial kibble however. The San Diego Zoo is an excellent zoo, and has the money and expertise to make sure their kitchens produce balanced diets (note the mention of calcium and phosphorous ratios, etc. in the link you provided). Most pet owners and small zoos do not have the resources that the San Diego Zoo does, and may be better off with kibble than a potentially inadequate diet. And again, there is good reason to use bones, and some meat to provide behavioral enrichment for many carnivores. Bartimaeushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04041170926124714639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-17358615716494958262013-01-01T19:37:47.516-08:002013-01-01T19:37:47.516-08:00Please follow this link
http://www.sandiegozoo.org...Please follow this link<br />http://www.sandiegozoo.org/animalbytes/t-wolf.html<br />The San Diego Zoo, considered by many to be the preeminent world zoo does not feed kibble. They could, but one must ask why they don't.<br />I'm sure that commercial kibble producers are quite pleased that the "Nutrition Advisory Group of the American Zoo and Aquarium Association" recommends commercially available dry food though : ]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-39704498943963628232012-08-13T20:08:39.083-07:002012-08-13T20:08:39.083-07:00Anonymous-those word in blue are links-they are yo...Anonymous-those word in blue are links-they are your friends-use them to find out where the information comes from and what evidence there is to back my claims. It is true that wild animals are exposed to a harsher environment than those in captivity. Part of that includes inconsistent and sometimes poor nutrition. Also my article did not claim that wolves in captivity are never fed raw meat, but that it was not necessary for their longevity. It is possible to feed a good raw diet to carnivores, but it is more difficult than feeding commercial food, and exposes the animals to some of the same risks (infection, damaged teeth, etc.) that shorten their lives in the wild. Perhaps the published information from zoo veterinarians, nutrition specialists and biologists might carry a little more weight than a volunteer posting on Reddit?Bartimaeushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04041170926124714639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-33560589736822176722012-08-10T15:33:46.758-07:002012-08-10T15:33:46.758-07:00This is the most rediculous article I ever read. T...This is the most rediculous article I ever read. There was a young girl posting on Reddit who volunteer at a wolf sanctuary. She Menton that they feed those wolf raw meat diet. Which zoo would feed wolves dog food? Oh and those wolves on average up to 17 years old. <br /><br />Wolves in the wild die young because they are exposed to harsher environment. Injuries can happen while hunting in the wild. Extreme weather climate is another reason for shorter life expectancy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-88148519083206378872011-05-25T08:41:56.841-07:002011-05-25T08:41:56.841-07:00Kim,
Thanks for your thoughtful comment-You are r...Kim, <br />Thanks for your thoughtful comment-You are right that some of the research into canine nutrition is perhaps not as robust as it should be, and it is possible to feed a dog a healthy, balanced raw diet. Many of the more expensive kibble brands use some of the same fallacies as the raw food promoters do. There is some evidence of risks (bacterial contamination, broken teeth on large bones, etc.) which are much higher with raw diets than with most commercial diets, without much evidence of added benefit. As long as you are aware of these issues, you are certainly free to choose to feed raw. Life is never risk-free of course, but people should be aware of what the relative risks really are.Bartimaeushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04041170926124714639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-71528512067218897322011-05-23T11:55:09.153-07:002011-05-23T11:55:09.153-07:00I definitely agree with you that the empirical evi...I definitely agree with you that the empirical evidence in favor of raw meat diets is scanty at best, and that proponents of such diets often use faulty reasoning, inappropriate appeals to emotion, and grossly distorted factual information. That said, I have good reasons to doubt that most opponents of raw feeding (i.e., those who say it does active harm), among whom many vets and canine nutritional experts, have done their homework any better. <br /><br />The converse of the naturalistic fallacy - wolves in the wild have shorter life-spans than dogs and captive wolves, therefore anything resembling a natural wolf diet is bad and scary - is often uttered by well-meaning vets without a second thought. Whereas, of course, it's just replacing one fallacy by another. Also, I believe that much of the existing research on canine nutrition, whether or not it reaches conclusions antagonistic to raw diets, is deeply flawed from a methodological point of view. At least the studies I've seen are sub-par as science. Examples include: drawing far-reaching conclusions from very small population samples (a common fault in any kind of medical research), failure to check test groups fed raw and kibble, respectively, for pre-existing Salmonella infection prior to the experiment, failure to distinguish between raw and cooked bones when investigating intestinal perforation. And I could go on. Bottomline is: everyone, canine nutritional experts as well as lay persons, needs better data. Science cannot be done using just common sense, because common sense is often simply wrong.<br /><br />For full disclosure - personally, I feed raw to my dog. Not because I think it is (very) superior to commercial dog food, but rather because I have no reason to believe it significantly shortens her life-span or affects her health negatively, and because she simply likes it better than any commercial kibble I've tried.Kim Fierensnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-57331064065799636472011-03-01T13:44:50.666-08:002011-03-01T13:44:50.666-08:00I was not aware that wolfs are fed dry dog food at...I was not aware that wolfs are fed dry dog food at some zoos, I thought the standard practice was to feed them a meat-based diet similar to what they would eat in the wild. I have to read the links you provide to find out more, I am interested.boxerhttp://www.boxerurkabustaiz.es/noreply@blogger.com