tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post2226928313974526068..comments2023-07-12T07:51:03.737-07:00Comments on SkeptiVet: New developments with Dr. Alson Sears' NDV treatment of Canine Distemper, and more worrying signs of quackery.Bartimaeushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04041170926124714639noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-6662534458313052462014-06-04T07:17:53.454-07:002014-06-04T07:17:53.454-07:00Hi there fellow skeptic! I just wanted to say &quo...Hi there fellow skeptic! I just wanted to say "thank you" for your post on NDV and distemper. It supplied some great ammo for a little controversy here in Alabama where some well meaning folks are claiming a "cure" for distemper in an animal shelter that had to put down 8 dogs.<br /><br />I'm very happy to see the veterinary equivalent of "sciencebasedmedicine.org." <br /><br />In Reason!Jim Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06095568383434925982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-87713985356044482562013-06-04T20:00:45.789-07:002013-06-04T20:00:45.789-07:00The Merial vaccine was indeed marketed as a "...The Merial vaccine was indeed marketed as a "subunit" vaccine that, in theory, could overcome maternal antibodies. In our use of the vaccine, we saw poor immunization resulting in post-vaccine infection and returned to the traditional modified live vaccine. The issue of the subunit vaccine being useful to avoid interference with a PCR test was never an issue, since IDEXX has a quantitative PCR for distemper. The emergence of quantitative PCR tests for other viruses will be a significant improvement in diagnosis, and hopefully will lead to an admission that SNAP tests do run the risk of failing in specificity for a recently vaccinated dog.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03026328784570862307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-5002639852036303092013-02-23T10:21:03.742-08:002013-02-23T10:21:03.742-08:00Thanks, should be fixed now.Thanks, should be fixed now.Bartimaeushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04041170926124714639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-22191460197528394932013-02-16T07:55:57.628-08:002013-02-16T07:55:57.628-08:00The links in the addendum from 7/28/10 no longer w...The links in the addendum from 7/28/10 no longer work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-86164098911486342282011-04-14T09:22:31.455-07:002011-04-14T09:22:31.455-07:00Jane has a booth at the Houston Pet Expo on April ...Jane has a booth at the Houston Pet Expo on April 16. She won't be there but she will have volunteers passing out literature touting this "treatment" as a cure for distemper. How can she do this? Is it even legal? What a scam? Shouldn't Pet Expo protect pet owners from snake oil salesmen?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-28192277554841480902011-04-03T07:39:18.529-07:002011-04-03T07:39:18.529-07:00Skeptivet there's a announcement. SUCCESS has ...Skeptivet there's a announcement. SUCCESS has been claimed by Jane Ward and Ed Bond, published in fact her Chronicle blog as of this week. States: "SUCCESS!: Dr. Sears' Canine Distemper Treatment Results": http://www.chron.com/channel/petshouston/commons/persona.html?newspaperUserId=rescuevolunteer&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3arescuevolunteerPost%3a0929b53a-f8e3-46fa-ad66-8d5f5a7fa5b3Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-4826877428917238342011-03-29T10:06:47.726-07:002011-03-29T10:06:47.726-07:00Jane promised all her donors that her findings wou...Jane promised all her donors that her findings would be published in June, 2010. Didn't happen. She caused terrible agony to the little pup named Hope by having a needle stuck into its brain, which was an illegal experiment by the way since the pup came from Houston's dog pound, BARC. She recruited donor dogs from rescue groups that had pulled the dogs from BARC, again illegal and unethical. Some of them got sick which she explained away by saying they were already sick. She does not have tax-exempt status although she constantly says that she is getting it. She has donation buttons everywhere she can put and constantly solicits donations for project Hope and her special needs dogs many of which are highly adoptable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-30675549794743214892011-02-22T07:22:51.877-08:002011-02-22T07:22:51.877-08:00Michelle, I do indeed know how devastating distemp...Michelle, I do indeed know how devastating distemper can be. The problem with the NDV treatment is that it has been around for 40+ years, and we still don't have good data to show if it really does anything. Just "trying something" can be a satisfying thing for the people involved, but if it is not really helping, it can be a waste of money and time and may in fact be harmful. That is why the proponents of any new treatment need to collect data in a careful, systematic way to show a possible benefit, and possibly get eneough interest and funding to test the treatment in a controlled manner. At this point no one really knows if the dog's chances are really better, they just like to think they are. Just trying something in an uncontrolled manner opens all of us up to the cognitive errors that we are all susceptible to, and misleads us more often than not.Bartimaeushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04041170926124714639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-42829466905040173032011-02-22T02:43:04.268-08:002011-02-22T02:43:04.268-08:00Have any of you had a pet die of this virus? Do y...Have any of you had a pet die of this virus? Do you know how devastating it is? They likely have less than a 50/50 chance of surviving the disease, so isn't trying something better than sitting and waiting for the dog to die slowly, or euthanizing. I for one think it is. They don't claim to work miracles, and they say so up front. The dogs' chances are better with having tried the treatment than not.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16853687034672635215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-68714948019320618212011-01-23T09:22:20.525-08:002011-01-23T09:22:20.525-08:00The problem with trying "alternatives" w...The problem with trying "alternatives" without evidence is that you really don't know if you are helping or doing nothing, or even making things worse without collecting evidence in a careful, systematic way. The NDV treatment for canine distemper has been around for 40 years or so now, and there is still only anecdotal evidence for it's use. Other uses of NDV vaccine for treating cancer, etc have been shown to be unreliable and or ineffective after careful study.<br /><br />I think you misunderstood my discussion of the Merial vaccine-I did not suggest that it could cure a dog already infected with distemper, but that using it could help to avoid confusion in diagnosing distemper in these puppies. Many of the normal vaccine strains of distemper can cause inclusion bodies, or otherwise confuse the diagnosis. Quite a few of the treated dogs still die of distemper, and some of those that survive may not have had distemper at all. Vaccine virus interfering with diagnostic tests is a possible confounding factor that the promoters of the NDV treatment need to consider if they have any hope of proving that what they are doing is useful.Bartimaeushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04041170926124714639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-18102057462036238032011-01-22T16:53:33.584-08:002011-01-22T16:53:33.584-08:00I have pulled SO many pups/ dogs from shelters wit...I have pulled SO many pups/ dogs from shelters with distemper. Many vets (at least 15 over the years) I have been to have no answers - so, why not try this? The only other option is DEAD! I have tried so many things but the survival rate is VERY slim with pups (less than 10% in my experience of fostering/ in charge of fosters in over 100 pups in 8 yrs). My personal dog survived distemper as a baby 7 yrs ago (and he had hard pads, all the classic symptoms from a shelter with a history of over 90% puppies having distemper) using transfer factor plus. I am not sure if this helped but it didn't hurt. <br /><br />My former vet prescribed marbofloxin for pythiosis. It was worthless and stupid but he didn't know what it was so wasted valuable time that led to my girls death. In my experiences, vets try things all the time that they "think" may help but don't do anything. I understand that dogs can't explain what is going on so it is very hard to diagnosis. <br /><br />I agree trials and scientific data is needed but I know this costs money and takes time. I am willing to give anything a shot - as the only other option is blue juice so why not?? What worse outcome can you have? It cost us MUCH less than the over $400 bill we paid for the vet to keep a distemper pup giving it just antibiotics only to have to euthanize him in the end. <br /><br />Personally, I am tired of vets trying to make a buck without thinking outside the box - most won't even check VIN to get some alternatives. I have saved many dogs/ pups that my vets said were hopeless using alternative treatments. So, I have seen MANY other unproven, unscientific remedies save many dogs/ pups. At this time, there are still vets out there that don't know to use tamiflu for parvo. Well, I haven't lost a parvo pup in YEARS b/c I get tamiflu in immediately. <br /><br />I have tried the Merial vaccine - and so did the shelter with distemper problem and we saw NO significant improvement with the number of pups dying. When you have held as many puppies in your arms while being euthanized that you have put your heart and soul into saving, you may change your mind about trying something - even if there is no scientific data, research studies or adequate sample sizes. I don't know if this will help but I will try just about anything that MAY help b/c it is better than dead!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-8068450619940405882010-10-05T16:12:24.451-07:002010-10-05T16:12:24.451-07:00Hi Jane, I have seen several puppies with Distempe...Hi Jane, I have seen several puppies with Distemper in this area in the last year, but none in the last 3 months or so-the local shelters may be getting a handle on their prevention/quarantine procedures. I agree that caring for puppies with distemper is an emotionally draining experience, and I can understand wanting an effective treatment. <br /><br />I would be interested in hearing about your experiences-specifically data concerning how many puppies survive with treatment and without treatment. I have seen very sick puppies survive without the NDV treatment as well, so I just wonder how significant the difference is, and how we can be sure that the NDV treatment is having the dramatic effect that is claimed for it. It is very easy for us (clients, vets, humans in general) to think we are doing helpful, when perhaps we are not. Collecting the data in a careful, unbiased way and evaluating it is the only way to know the difference.Bartimaeushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04041170926124714639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-63337364425917360042010-10-05T13:52:55.826-07:002010-10-05T13:52:55.826-07:00Hi I am the "Jane" who writes the Housto...Hi I am the "Jane" who writes the Houston Chronicle blog and founder of "Project Hope" in Houston. I wanted to test Dr. Sears' protocols present day after seeing so many puppies especially dying of distemper in the shelters, in foster homes, etc. <br /><br />I am happy to open a dialogue between you and Dr. Sears and/or Project Hope's vet. I think if you have a distemper case, try the serum yourself. There are vets in different parts of the country who have it now and I can work to make it available to you if the intent is genuine to help the animal. There is nothing like seeing a very sick animal recover. <br /><br />Sometimes, I feel, there is a time to be skeptical; other times is is appropriate to jump in the ring and not call the game from the sidelines--and so I did. I am amazed at what I have seen. <br /><br />I do indeed appreciate how you articulated your concerns/thoughts. It gives us lots to consider. My email is animalrescuevolunteer@yahoo.com Thank you for being an advocate for the animals.Jane Wardhttp://www.chron.com/rescuevolunteernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-77559702161445534272010-07-25T22:03:09.563-07:002010-07-25T22:03:09.563-07:00Thanks for your comment Edythe; I will try to addr...Thanks for your comment Edythe; I will try to address your questions.<br /><br />There have been some interesting in-vitro studies showing that Ribavirin is active against Distemper virus, but so far evidence of in-vivo effectiveness is lacking. There may be some research going on right now, but so far nothing has been published. Antiviral medications are generally more useful if given during the early stages of the disease, which can be problematic with the difficulty of definitively diagnosing Distemper and the confusion caused by vaccine virus. The same applies to Tamiflu for Parvovirus-it seems to be more effective when given early, and the effect seems modest, especially in severe cases. The only recent controlled trial (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed) looked promising-the treated dogs did better than those that were untreated, and side effects appeared minimal, but again the sample size was small and the results should still be considered preliminary.<br /> Vitamin A may be helpful, especially if the patient is not eating well and is deficient in vitamin A. This could fall under the category of supportive care for any sick animal, where supplementing vitamins and nutritional support can be valuable. The study involved ferrets, so again the evidence for effectiveness in dogs is <br />somewhat lacking, but judicious use of a safe dose of vitamin A is inexpensive and might be helpful.<br /> Interferons have generally been disappointing, but some of the newer recombinant interferons look promising, for parvovirus at least, but so far are not available commercially in the U.S. The studies you cite look promising, but at best can be considered preliminary-the sample sizes are small, and it seems little work has been done in the last 8-10 years, which is disappointing, and may indicate that it was not considered commercially viable.<br /> Colloidal silver seems to be a popular item with many alt. med. folks these days, but there is no evidence that it is effective against serious systemic infections, viral or otherwise. The only proven use of silver products is as a topical ointment such as silvadene for burns and other surface wounds.<br /> At this point I don't know anything about an Imulan product either.<br /><br /> At this point, prevention of disease with vaccination, isolation, etc. is still by far the most effective way to control these diseases. It would be nice to have an effective treatment for those dogs who fall through the cracks and suffer from distemper, but at this point we are still working with antivirals and other treatments of limited effectiveness.<br /><br />Thanks for you comment, I hope this helps.<br />BartimaeusBartimaeushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04041170926124714639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4377960011681266299.post-11517623113426404002010-07-25T21:18:06.924-07:002010-07-25T21:18:06.924-07:00(note; this comment has been moved to this post by...(note; this comment has been moved to this post by the blog author)<br /><br />Anonymous said...<br /><br /> Dear Bartimaeus,<br /><br /> Thank you for posting your misgivings about the potential for Newcastle Virus vaccine induced serum to effectively treat Canine Distemper.<br /><br /> On the Wikipedia site, there are references to other possible treatments for Canine Distemper and also for Canine Parvovirus, please see:<br /> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canine_distemper<br /> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canine_parvovirus<br /><br /> Other treatments Wikipedia mentions for Canine Distemper include:<br /> 1- the antiviral Ribavirin<br /> 2- Vitamin A<br /> 3- Interferon Alpha<br /><br /> Regarding Ribavirin, please see:<br /> www.vetinfo.com/treating-canine-distemper-ribavirin.html and<br /> http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Canine_Distemper_Virus<br /><br /> Regarding Vitamin A please see:<br /> http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/137/8/1916<br /><br /> I did not find any sites discussing treatment with Interferon Alpha.<br /><br /> What is your opinion of the potential efficacy of any of these treatments for Distemper?<br /><br /> Other treatments Wikipedia mentions for Canine Parvovirus include:<br /> 1- the antiviral Tamiflu<br /> 2- colloidal silver<br /> 3- IMULAN Bio Therapeutics LLC is researching a new biologic?<br /> 4- Recombinant Feline Interferon Omega which is produced in silkworm larvae using a baculovirus vector. Wikipedia lists 4 references for this treatment:<br /><br /> ^ Ishiwata K, Minagawa T, and Kajimoto T. (1998). "Clinical<br /> effects of the recombinant feline interferon-ω on<br /> experimental parvovirus infection in beagle dogs.". J. Vet.<br /> Med. Sci. 60 (8): 911–7. doi:10.1292/jvms.60.911. PMID<br /> 9764403.<br /> ^ Martin V, Najbar W, Gueguen S, Grousson D, Eun HM,<br /> Lebreux B, Aubert A. (2002). "Treatment of canine parvoviral<br /> enteritis with interferon-omega in a placebo-controlled<br /> challenge trial". Vet. Microbiol. 89 (2-3): 115–127.<br /> doi:10.1016/S0378-1135(02)00173-6. PMID 12243889.<br /> ^ De Mari K, Maynard L, Eun HM, Lebreux, B. (2003).<br /> "Treatment of canine parvoviral enteritis with<br /> interferon-omega in a placebo-controlled field trial". Vet.<br /> Rec. 152 (4): 105–8. PMID 12572939.<br /> ^ Kuwabara M, Nariai, Horiuchi, Nakajima Y, Yamaguchi Y,<br /> Horioka I, Kawanabe M, Kubo Y, Yukawa M, Sakai T. (2006).<br /> "Immunological effects of recombinant feline interferon-ω<br /> (KT80) administration in the dog.". Microbiol. Immunol. 50<br /> (8): 637–641. PMID 16924149.<br /><br /> Please also see:<br /> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed.9764403 and<br /> http://www.felipedia.org/~felipedi/wiki/index.php/Feline_Panleucopenia<br /> which states that:<br /> "Feline recombinant interferon-omega is effective in the treatment of parvoviral enteritis in dogs and also inhibits replication of FPV in cell culture(9). So far, no data are available on the efficacy of this cytokine in FPV-infected cats, but it is expected to perform well - if not better - in the homologous host (Evidence based medicine grade IV)"<br /><br /> Regarding Tamiflu please see:<br /> http://www.jackbroadhurstdvm.com<br /> A Dr. Broadhurst in NC seems to be having success treating Parvovirus (Canine Parvovirus in dogs, and Feline Panleukopenia in cats and Feline Panleukopenia or maybe Raccoon Parvoviral Enteritis in raccoons) with the antiviral Tamiflu.<br /><br /> As for colloidal silver I did not find anything to support it as a treatment for parvovirus, and I did not find anything about IMULAN Bio Therapeutics new treatment either.<br /><br /> What is your opinion of the potential efficacy of any of these treatments? Not asking much eh? :)<br /><br /> Thank you in advance for any insights you can offer.<br /><br /> Sincerely,<br /> Edythe Butler<br /> Ottawa, Ontario, Canada<br /> July 25, 2010 1:16 PMBartimaeushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04041170926124714639noreply@blogger.com